A while back I wrote this post concerning the differences between alder and swamp ash when used in a strat-style guitar and what tones/genres of music those combinations suited best. I originally wrote that post to satisfy my own curiosity, but also to share with others and participate in the discussion. Three years later it is still the most searched topic on this site and continues to bring in a steady stream of traffic. Apparently, I’m not the only one curious about these things….
Since I wrote the original post, I realized that I was missing a big chunk of the puzzle: how the wood the neck and fingerboard were made from influenced the tone of the instrument. I realized the only way to truly see this was by comparing the two most popular neck wood combinations for a strat-style guitar (maple neck with rosewood fingerboard and one-piece maple neck & fingerboard) on the same guitar.
To conduct this comparison I used two Suhr Classic guitars with identical electronics (V60LP pickups and the Silent Single Coil system). One was alder with a one-piece maple neck and the other, swamp ash with a maple neck and Brazilian rosewood fingerboard. I recorded both clean and dirty passages utilizing every pickup combination on each guitar, then swapped the necks and repeated the process. note: swapping necks on a Suhr guitar will void your warranty if the factory doesn’t perform the work.
What follows below are the audio clips organized by pickup position so that you can compare the sounds of the different wood combinations within the same context.
NECK POSITION – CLEAN TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
NECK POSITION – DIRTY TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
NECK + MIDDLE POSITION – CLEAN TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
NECK + MIDDLE POSITION – DIRTY TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
MIDDLE POSITION – CLEAN TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
MIDDLE POSITION – DIRTY TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
MIDDLE + BRIDGE POSITION – CLEAN TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
MIDDLE + BRIDGE POSITION – DIRTY TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
BRIDGE POSITION – CLEAN TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
BRIDGE POSITION – DIRTY TONES
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Alder Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Once Piece Maple Neck
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Swamp Ash Body – Maple Neck with Brazilian Rosewood Fingerboard
Thanks Pete, that was awesome. I am surprised I can hear the difference, and at times, I’m surprised that the difference is very subtle.
Matt Parsons
July 9, 2010 at 7:55 am
Ahh, glorious confirmation that swamp ash sounds better than alder! 🙂
Tom
July 9, 2010 at 11:30 am
Thanks for the comparison clips, very thorough. The ‘clean’ tones were edgier than I consider for clean but they work. When I think of clean Strat tones, I think of Sultans of Swing, etc, you know, chimey bell-tones. Surprised at how much more I prefer the Alder – the Ash body seems harsh in comparison. And the Maple neck sounds fatter and warmer than the Roswood fingerboard neck, was expecting the opposite.
The dirty clips were too overdriven for my personal tastes, I had no preferences for one wood or another.
Stevie
July 9, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Alder and rosewood works for me!
Great experiment, thanks.
LindseyP
July 9, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Great way to compare, thanks for the clips. The swampash/maple/maple clips remind me of what I like about my swampash Tele with all maple neck. It’s great for funk.
Gary
July 15, 2010 at 11:14 am
I can hear a slight difference, but its so small theres no reason think one is better than the other.
A little EQ tweaking could make them all sound identical
While sound is part of the equation, EQ’ing won’t change the responsiveness of the different woods in your hands when playing in different settings. Amp volume (whether clean or overdriven) is like using a microscope for sound….it will further bring out the inherent foundational qualities of these wood combinations.
Leo
August 3, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Wonderfull work!, definitely I prefer Alder + maple/maple, bright clear, no harsh, chimey/twangy. All the 50´s, 60´s flavors! :-).
thanks mate that has helped me confirm that ash and maple is for me.rock on..Jazz on country on ………..Funk on
Tanner
August 6, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Pete,
Can you tell us the neck shapes on your Suhr strats? I’m trying to decide between the even C slim or the 60’s C shape Suhr neck for a Suhr custom build. Also, have you found the Single coil silencing technology installed in your suhrs to affect tone at all? By the way, thanks for taking the time to do these recordings. This is just what I was searching for on the net!
Sure. The one piece maple neck was the 60’s C medium while the maple with Brazilian rosewood fingerboard was the Even C medium shape. Both necks featured a 10-14″ radius. The shape is really a matter of preference in what feels comfortable in your hand. I find the radius to have more of an effect on your playing than the neck shape. For me, anything rounder that 10-14 is too “vintage” for my playing style.
As for the Silent Single Coil system, I think it is a wonderful innovation. The ability to play single coil pickups with all their delicate, glassy, punchy and gnarly glory without hum through high gain is amazing. I do think that the in-between positions feel and sound a little different because of the polarity being the same (vs RWRP on typical strats), but its not enough to make be want to switch back. That said, if you think they sound fine in my clips here then you should be more than happy with them.
Thanks for digging the clips. Please spread the word!
Dicano
August 28, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Haha…whatever it is, they all sound like great strats…:):)
Phil
September 23, 2010 at 11:07 pm
Thanks Pete for doing such a systematic comparison. I was surprised to hear so much difference. For me the big, round tone of the alder body/maple neck combo was streets ahead. This was a surprise since conventional wisdom says that maple is brighter than rosewood. If my physics lessons serve me correctly, the density of the woods will be more important than the actual species of the woods in determining tone.
Awesome work Pete, thanks a lot for spending so much of your time and for working so thoroughly! I am currently thinking about getting a swamp ash with rosewood and in the clips it has been my fovourite comination. Did you mention yours or did you leave that out on purpose?
Thanks Martin. I left my preference out on purpose as I wanted everyone else to make their own decisions. I will certainly say that through this process I’ve learned what combinations I prefer for various genres of music or particular musical settings, but that’s just my opinion.
mr. bombastic
December 8, 2010 at 12:27 pm
thanks for that, that changed my mind in general. only thought which neck would sound different. the swamp ash has a perfect punch, the alder is quite soft in comparison.
mr. bombastic
December 8, 2010 at 12:30 pm
@Gary
don`t think so, swanp ash has more “body” in my ear. had the problem when i tried to make my emg sa sound like proper strat-coils. they missed the punch in any way. days of trying – no chance!
mr. bombastic
December 9, 2010 at 11:34 am
i tried to identify the samples blindly. body is obvious the first time you hear it. the neck is not that big difference and i absolutly agree with tom: the maple neck sounds fatter!
Great review! I t would have been interesting to list these without telling what the woods were and then get the comments, since many of us think we know what this wood or that wood will sound like. If only they would sell Brent Mason and or Eddie Van Halens fingers :p
stratcat
April 23, 2011 at 6:19 pm
alder/maple sound good together, ash/rosewood also sound good..both have a good balance. alder/rosewood sound thuddy/lifeless, and ash/maple are to bright. Just my .02 cents worth,i personally would choose ash/rosewood..real bluesy tone
Justin Case
June 8, 2011 at 1:45 pm
I’ve been listening to all the samples over and over again… In different days and different moods but in the same room and via the same sound system. My conclusion is the swamp-ash + rosewood f’board sounds better, IMO. As StratCat well stated, the ash body + rosewood is sort of a perfect balance, as the rosewood “smoothes” the natural “brightness” of the ash body.
My main guitar is a 1 piece, ash-bodied, 1959 Stratocaster with a rosewood board. Some people say it’s a quite rare guitar as Fender changed to alder sometime between 1956/1957. Also, the pickups in this one have a bit more output than later Strat pickups wounded in the then-modern, automatic winders.
However, Pete’s audio samples sound quite close to my old Strat. And to be completely honest (and a bit biased, I admit), I just love the sound of my Strat, hence, my preference for the ash + rosewood combo.
ToneScavenger
July 22, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Ahh! They all sound so different and so similar at the same time… To me the fretboard woods have remarkable differences in the sound, prove that the a small piece of wood like the fretboard will make a big difference in the sound. I love both Alder and Swamp Ash ans I own guitars on both woods. It’s a matter of taste and prefereces, that’s all it is!
Dino Royo
October 30, 2011 at 11:18 am
BTW, how much do you get the classics nowadays? Is it still in the $3000 range? A friend of mine told me he got his for $2000, but he had to wait for 10 months
I like the swamp ash for the neck and bridge pickups, but the alder for the rest. Too bad nobody makes a switch to toggle between woods!
I could also hear added complexity in the rosewood fretboard, but i much preferred the tonal purity of the one-piece maple neck. To me, that added complexity just muddied things up.
To my ears… The all maple neck has fewer harmonics(more fundamental) than a maple neck/rosewood board (thicker, harmonically richer tone)… The ash body has fewer lows/mids than alder…
A guitars neck oscillates out of phase with the strings vibration causing phase cancellation at certain frequencies.. A stiffer neck will have more highs because it oscillates less causing less phase cancellation, hence more treble…
BluesBird
December 8, 2011 at 5:18 am
Tom :
Surprised at how much more I prefer the Alder – the Ash body seems harsh in comparison. And the Maple neck sounds fatter and warmer than the Roswood fingerboard neck, was expecting the opposite.
Thanks for all the effort you made toward putting to rest this long running debate. I agree with the quote above… was expecting the maple neck to be brighter than the rosewood. The differences are subtle but the alder/maple combination sounds a bit warmer to me. In the end, the difference is in the ear of the beholder so to speak.
Thanks, Im looking this article over the past 2years and gladly found it here..the audio sample also helps a lot 😀
i can clearly hear the difference
greetings from Indonesia 🙂
You can get the Pro series for less that 2k but then you have no control over the specs. If you are very specific about what you want for a classic (and I would HIGHLY suggested getting the SSC system), you’re still looking at the 2-3k range.
To my ears maple isn’t brighter, it just cuts better in the mix, especially when paired with alder. Not much low end in that scenario, but when you’re playing with a band that shouldn’t matter.
Glad you enjoyed this and found it useful. The purpose of my posts is to keep people from wasting money on things that I wish I knew about when I was younger! Please learn from my mistakes! 😉
deedub
December 16, 2011 at 1:56 am
This is an awesome and well executed fair comparison. Seems like Suhr stirred up a massive buzz over the past few years with the “Swamp ash rosewood” stuff on their website, and this comparison is perfect for nipping that in the butt. Theres a difference, but not in a bad way… definitely not enough to tell people its not the ash-rose combo is not recommended. Thanks for doing this regardless the outcome, people can decide with their own ears with this balanced comparison.
woody
December 30, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Thanks for you great work. i have been searching for a great tone with different woods and I found out that the weight of the body has more to do with the tone and response than the wood itself.
For the tone and attack of the E string I would dare to say that your alder body is a little more weighty than the swamp ash, but in any case the guitars weight more than 7,5lbs. am I wrong?
great article and research! I’ve just stuck an SRV signature neck(Pau Ferro) on a swamp ash body thats light, around 3,13..so was looking around for any opinions..Most of the strats I have actually have alder bodies, but one of the strats has an interesting body, its a scheckter vintage custom shop body made from Iroko wood..definitely has a different sound to alder anyway…I stuck a fender gold series bridge and used a brass claw and noiseless springs in the back and it runs a brazilian rosewood scheckter neck with reverse head..would be interesting to put against the alder and ash…
Anyway, great work!
Sehriyar
January 29, 2012 at 4:38 am
Hi Pete,
To me it wasn’t a big surprise when Brazilian Rosewood was brighter than Maple. Maple is known to be brighter than regular, or Indian Rosewood but Brazilian Rosewood is very dense and bright. That being said, I think there’s the factor that a neck with a glued fingerboard would be less ‘fat’ than a one-piece neck.
I think you’re absolutely right about different genres needs different wood choices. To my ears Ash has a mid-scooped sound which, when used with med-high gain gets too boomey at lows and shrill at highs. Again, not a problem when playing alone or if you’re in a modern metal band. But in a bad where the bass player conquers all the lows and has super sharp slapping techniques a overly mid-scooped guitar tone would be lost.
personally I like it warm with a lot of gain, so I’d go for Alder and all Maple in this case.
Thanks again for this fantastic comparison.
Cheers
I did a quick listen through the speakers on this laptop- will put some headphones on later- but initially I like the alder body. I’m more about ‘clean’- at the source. I sensed a bit more “distortion” in the swamp ash recording. Not to say it’s ‘bad’ at all- and ‘distortion’ may not be the correct way to describe what I’m hearing. I came here because I just bought a G&L S-500 with an alder body and saw there was another model with an ash body. The swamp ash body G&L was less expensive than the alder… Anyway, thanks for doing this!
Ri
March 3, 2012 at 9:25 am
Thanks a lot for all of this.
Seth
April 3, 2012 at 9:18 am
Man, thanks for the sound experiement to determine what’s a better wood. I aonly listened to the selections woth maple/rosewood necks ’cause that’s what I prefer.
It’s all individual, of course. Alder sounded a bit boomier with a bit more focused attack. Swamp ash sounded a bit edgier, quackier, more telecaster-like, with more emphasis on hi-mids than alder.
I go with alder because of perceived overall better string definition and fuller low end.
frank castrataro
May 30, 2012 at 9:12 am
great article — even if we can get a little too annal about all this, but I realized I really like the swamp ash + I would have never said that before.
Kevin
July 5, 2012 at 9:23 am
I can’t decide between alder/maple and ash/rosewood so just give me one of both please.
Ah! What a superb piece of work! I play mostly classical music (Bach, Vivaldi, Villa-Lobos, Faure etc etc)> I have found that for me an alder body with a pure maple neck and fretboard give me the more clear tones. You appear to have confirmed this so it is not just my ears.
Marc
October 9, 2012 at 10:29 am
Bravo ! that’s quite a job…impressed I am…
jeff gerndt
January 16, 2013 at 7:46 am
what a great comparison! Thanks for all your work. As always,it boils down to personal preference. I like the warm full sound of alder and rosewood.
robert
March 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm
This is the best demo I’ve ever heard, seriously. Thanks for your time in doing this and posting it. I like the ash/maple combo the best overall, but the alder/Brazilian sounds great too. Ash/Braz seems to have too many overtones or something – sounds good clean, but is too much, IMO, overdriven. The alder/maple combo just sounds too fundamental and middy for my tastes. Thanks again for this!
Russ
March 31, 2013 at 4:43 am
Nicely done. Context: Ash vs Alder with Rosewood neck. I didn’t listen to maple necks. To me the ash typically emphasizes highs and lows – meaning I hear more in the very low and very high frequencies. It seems the Ash body is like a natural way to turn up the presence control (the frequencies above the treble control on a tube amp). I like this in all the pickups except the bridge where its just too darn piercing. The Fender American Deluxe Strat has a pickup configuration that controls for that a bit – but also reduces the usefulness of two of the ten bridge and neck pickup combinations. It is interesting the Eric Johnson, Jeff Beck etc. choose Alder with their Rosewood artist strats.
Dr. Hard Truth
June 10, 2013 at 10:49 am
God Bless Pete for attempting this experiment.
Important for folks to note that you can hear subtle differences.
However, the guitars were not strummed and fretted by a machine, nor do they share the same exact, swapped-out pickups, or circuit for each, and every recording sample. Bummer.
Thus, we MUST ask ourselves: Are the infinitesimally subtle variations we hear contributed to solely by the wood constituents of each guitar? Or, might the pressure differences in strumming, and in fretting between recordings add the tonal variations? Perhaps the varying pickup outputs may be a factor? Could the fairly large (up to 15%)manufacturing tolerances allowed between two “identical” potentiometers, produced consecutively on the assembly line, be adding/subtracting some high-end, or low-end, thus accounting for a bit extra “bite”, or some more/less “woof”? Hmm.
That is how an experiment must be performed if we are to determine it’s results scientific, therefore “most probably factual”. It is a ton of work to perform such a test. To take the entire circuit, and pickups out of one guitar, and move them to another prior to each recording. However it is THE ONLY way to truly determine that the build materials are the cause of the variations.
Most major manufacturers HAVE performed these tests, under stringent scientific guidelines. I know this from my friend “Mr. X” whom worked at one of “The Big 3” for many decades designing guitars, and pickups. Sadly, they do not publicize their results. The hard truth is that their results do not support the case for the existence of “electric tonewood”. This is why these tests are not public. They are only mentioned in Internal Memos.
However, many dollars have already been sunk into the marketing machine attempting to convince players that Swamp Ash (for which Fender got a nice buy-in this month from a Brazilian seller)is “more resonant” than Pine. The only way a company can move all those maple-neck guitars they are overstocked with, is if they market them to country players who need “high-end clarity” for extended chording. Otherwise, the only difference between Maple and Rosewood, is the color. A much harder market segment to determine.
Lastly, some folks are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED, BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that electric “tonewoods” are a factor in their audio composite.
For those hardcore guys, and gals, one must invoke “The Placebo Factor”. The human brain is such an inherently powerful instrument, that the mere “power of suggestion” via a sugar-pill literally cures 25-30% of the control group IN EVERY pharmacological study. It is common knowledge, and an easily researchable factoid.
It is not limited to drugs, however. The power of suggestion can work for almost any decision a human can make. Including what we hear. So ask yourself if you really hear a difference one way, or another. Or, might you just THINK you hear it, because you were told you would?
Food for thought. Thanks again Pete, for trying to get to the bottom of such a huge pile of crapola.
Dr. Hard Truth
June 10, 2013 at 11:09 am
@Sehriyar
Which Maple are you referring to? Quilted, Bird’s Eye, or Flame? They are all different. Quilted is very soft, while Bird’s Eye is quite hard. Flame could go either way. How can they all be lumped together if they are so very different? What gives them predictable acoustic signatures if not the density, and grain?
There is no singular MAPLE. So how is it you hear “Maple” as just being unquestionably “brighter”? Very confusing. Maybe you could talk to a luthier, and get some clarity? Doc
Thanks for the test. It has always been my obsession to figure out all the possible subtileties in sound by varying the parts of an instrument! Your test has been very useful and surprising.
I found that on the clean tones that the alder/maple combination brings out a dryer and more compact sound together with warmer bass and rounder trebles. Rosewood sounded good, but less bassy and a little sloppier, and to my surprise the ash body was too ringing, with a little too long sustain on the disturbing parts of the sound.
So, in my personal opinion it would be better to play the alder body with the maple neck as it is easier to control the sound, as it sustains just the right amount making the player relax about the left hand. Also because of the warmth it is easier to pick the right tone with the right hand.
james
August 2, 2013 at 11:34 pm
Flawed test. Pickups are not identical on both guitars. if you switched the entire wiring harness/pickguard from one body to the other that would be better. But still, rewiring, soldering, etc could create a loss of high end… The tonal differences are consistent FOR EACH BODY/SET OF PUPS, so all that was proven was the pickups sound different on each guitar. That’s all.
Eric
October 5, 2013 at 9:03 pm
Thanks Pete for going to all the trouble.
I think the sound samples are all very consistent and really let you hear the differences wood can make.
For me it’s Alder/Rosewood hands down every time.
Cheers,
Eric
Tom
November 5, 2013 at 8:26 pm
Woods do make a difference. Not only in the frequencies emphasized, but also in the envelope. For example, how fast the notes pop off the fretboard, how does the guitar react when you dig in, character of the overtones, things like that. I’ve always noticed that the ebony fingerboard on the LP Customs produces a different envelope than the rosewood on the LP standard. Play each through a clean amp. The difference is there. You’ll also notice a difference between Brazilian Rosewood and Indian rosewood when lots of gain is used. Brazilian is tighter. Pauferro responds more like Brazilian than Indian. Ever wonder why Fender chose pauferro over rosewood for the SRV Strat. Canary has really strong piano bass. Then of course there are differences in individual samples.
Big necks also flatter the tone. Notes seem to have more ‘girth’ when the neck is nice and fat. That’s also an envelope effect. Skinny necks tend to sound weaker when playing clean. I think it has to do with how the vibrations are transferred.
So the question is whether you hear it and whether you can you feel it when you play. These differences are most evident when you play in a toneful manner. Crank up megagain on a Line 6 and employ a hamfisted technique, you’re not gonna notice a difference. As for the woods used in the test, swamp ash and rosewood = scooped mids. Maple and alder have fatter / more natural mids. These differences tend toward differences in certain tube types, 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, etc. Of course it’s also totally possible that I’ve been imagining all these things 🙂
what this tells me is wood is a minor contributor. i mean, i can get bigger variations by using different picks, playing in a different place on the string, changing pickup height, changing pickups, etc
i was going to do my own experiment to see how wood resonance contributes to tone. maybe i won’t now.
i know this isn’t a “perfect” experiment. variation in playing is probably the biggest variant but it’s close enough for me to make a decision.
Marcel
November 19, 2013 at 2:56 am
The problem with this here is that you can see which sound sample is which guitar.
So because of personal preferences the people will definetely hear what they want to hear. See such comments like “I didn’t listen to maple necks.” Lol-Why? Does rosewood sound better? Definetely not.
So what I did for a plain objective result is this:
I downloaded your sound samples and wrote a software that does basically randomize this sound samples (divided in the 10 categories (clean/dirty)).
I ran this program like 20 times on different days and noted the results.
This may be one of the most interesting tests because it is perfectly objective.
The final result shows exactly what I thought it might. Although I always had I sample I liked the most, eventually this was every time a different sample.
So the final result was that all 4 combinations got nearly exact the same points (maple slightly more than the rosewood ones).
Why is that? Electric guitar sound (on the contrary to acoustic guitar sound) is affected by the guitar’s wood very little to almost zero. You will find guitars that have extremely small bodies and no headstock but they blow you away with their bass etc. So forget about buying the “right wood” for you guitar. It doesn’t make any difference.
My suggested combination: Alder/Maple.
Why? Alder ist usually lighter that Ash (more comfortable to wear).
And maple is a bit more resistant to dirt and damages than rosewood.
If you want to test this yourself using my software I can give it to you.
Dave Gill
November 22, 2013 at 8:16 am
Thank for the test!
Confirms what I have been hearing. Swamp Ash sucks…. at least for me… for a strat. You lose all of the definition that makes a strat sound like a strat.
I can get any number of guitars to sound like the swamp ash + rosewood combo…. but the alder / maple combo is one of a kind.
Tom
June 28, 2014 at 8:10 am
@Russ The Eric Johnson Strat is Alder Body with Maple neck.
Mario
December 28, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Excellent comparison! Looks to me like the main sound comes from the body. Ash appears to be too bright for me and, I think, this the reason why 9 out of 10 would rather pick up an alder body (when looking for a good Strat; vice versa for Teles), as it is very difficult to curb the high end coming from the construction of an electric guitar itself; you can replace the pickups and play long games with a variety of amps and strings, but you will never ever put higher tones down (if this is a problem). Ash/maple combination is definitely pure vintage sound, whereas Alder/Maple and Alder/Rosewood is a modern Strat (think Hendrix, Clapton, Knopfler). Lack of sound reproducibility in case of Ash was not the only reason for which Fender decided to switch into Alder body; it gives you way warmer sound (loads of midrange absent in case of Ash).
Fantastic presentation, life saving research – thank you !!!
Mark
August 6, 2015 at 3:33 pm
You know I keep hearing guys talking about wood doesn’t make a difference. And how it’s such a placebo effect but Kudos to what this brother did in his exercise of tone evaluation! I kept hearing the same differences as the wood combos would change. So, if it was a placebo, I would just hear whatever I wanted to hear. But I was surprised to find that my ears heard the first combination “Adler and maple neck” as the Best sounding ! for the style in which the player was playing. Which surprised me because I am a rosewood kind of guy. But to the so-called “placebo” position: In that only the Pickups and amp make a difference to the sound, and the Wood and be player don’t come into play in the soup of sound . I submit this….. My wife and I are singers and players but when we sing on the mic we sound Completely different… On the same mic… so goes wood on the same mic. 🙂
Mark
August 7, 2015 at 12:49 am
Sorry I ment to spell Alder not Adler 🙂
neonjohn
August 19, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Thanks for the test. It surprised me, but not in the way most would think. It did NOT reinforce my preconceived notion.
I think what we often hear is very much what we are already invested in, financially or emotionally. I am a 35 year sound production engineer and composer for television, known for his ears, and for me the differences are for the most part astoundingly subtle. I can tell you honestly that if I artfully edited most of these together, perhaps with the tiniest touch of EQ, no one . . . NO ONE would be able to reliably hear the edit points. A million times I have seamlessly edited far less well matched audio.
What does that say? The differences are miniscule. Far more subtle than I ever expected (btw, I have both ash and alder Fenders). Dynamics are amazingly similar. EQ differences VERY minor. A little EQ tweak would do it. And a compressor, even lightly applied, would wipe out the dynamics differences. We’re mostly hearing what we expect to hear . . . or want to hear. We want to be validated. It’s a human thing.
The truth is that guitars themselves are very individual. We’ve all played 5 different stats and found ONE we liked. I have heard 2 of the exact same model alder/maple strats sound far more different than most of these.
My two cents . . . .
Larry
May 18, 2016 at 10:15 am
I think you can hear the difference in the lower strings more . The rosewood is slightly bassier and fuller .
George
May 18, 2016 at 11:24 am
Whatever tests those ‘Big 3’ did, THEY don’t count as scientific unless they are made public in all details. We at least can criticize the results here, we are given no such chance with those. We can’t take ‘somebody’s word’ for it sorry.
Pete,
I cannot possibly thank you enough for this thorough analysis & audio clips. I have been struggling with selecting the right body tone woods & neck woods to get the the tones that I want in an S-style guitar. These postings are an enormous help, so I greatly appreciate it. For whatever it’s worth, I am going with an Alder body & one piece maple neck. Just wish I had discovered your fine work before buying several S-types only to be disappointed by missing the mark on finding the right combination of tone woods for my taste.
Tilmann Zwicker
July 31, 2016 at 11:13 pm
Dear Peter,
thank you for all the great work!
Would it be possible to have an e-mail exchange about a psychoacoustic experiment on the differences neck and body material make on the perception of guitar sound? If you agree, please use my e-mail address – you have it now!
Thanks in advance for your consideration,
Tilmann
Dan Vanderplough
September 18, 2016 at 6:56 am
Thank you for this fine work. I have not come across any comparison like this before, and I am very impressed. While the differences were subtle, my favorite was the Alder-One Piece Maple Neck because of its definition in the high end. Interesting, because I play a Swamp Ash – Maple Neck guitar currently, which I like. But in your test, the first combo sounded a bit better to me.
Doug Smith
November 12, 2016 at 6:18 pm
Great comparison, I’ve been looking for something like this for quite a while, I wish it had been done earlier, this was very thorough and revealing. Great choice using a Suhr strat, Right now i have a Brazilian rosewood neck blank that is long enough to make a neck thru strat neck, without a fretboard blank yet, or used to make an acoustic with 14 fret neck and fretboard as an option. I also have a macassar ebony neck blank and an macassar ebony fretboard blank that could be made into a ebony neck thru strat with ebony fretboard. They’re both more than 40 inches long. I am debating getting an alder, swamp ash, and african mahogany 1 piece body blanks for these possible guitars. Fortunately i have a luthier available that can make guitars on par with a Suhr strat as far as tone quality is concerned. I wanted a clear, bright, ringing and resonate tone for a strat to make chimey electric intros to hard rock songs, among other lesser needs. More traditional strat rock tones would be an added bonus if the guitar could do those as well. I also like david gilmour’s 70’s and 80’s strat tones. After hearing this excellent comparison, it seems alder body, maple or ebony neck and maple/brazilian rosewood/ebony fretboard seems to be what it’s narrowed down to for a bright, shimmery, long sustaining bridge pickup clean guitar for arpeggiated and single note leads and melodies for me. It would be great to see some comparisons with ebony, african rosewood(korina or limba) and hard( not swamp ash) ash for bodies, necks and fretboards done by this same author. This comparison here really brought to light the differences between ash and alder bodies to me, and maple and brazilian rosewood fretboards. Alder bodies seemed more focused and midrangey, and swamp ash seemed richer, more resonant, but duller and weaker in tone. Maple fretboards seemed brighter and more forward, brazilian rosewood fretboards seemed more woody and richer and harmonically complex and broader, but less forward. That’s how it seemed to me, just my input here. Does anyone have knowledge of ebony vs. brazilian rosewood necks( and possibly fretboards also)and which has a brighter or richer deeper tone?
Alexis Cohen
December 5, 2016 at 7:50 pm
That is really helpful!!! and a proof to some folks on the web claiming that wood doesn’t affect the sound of an electric guitar… Well done, and thank you for taking the time to put all this together for you and the rest of us !!!
Ross Elliott
November 26, 2017 at 9:06 am
Hi Pete,
I’m trying to make this exact tone wood decision before ordering a USACG neck and body. I have Flash installed and javasript enabled, but still not able to get to your sound clips. Are they still available? Is there any other method to get access to them?
Thanks a bunch………….
Hi Ross – thanks for reminding me that I need to replace the flash plugin with a more modern HTML5 audio player. I will get that updated in the next few days and reply here once its up and running again. Sorry about that.!
Tony
January 17, 2018 at 1:06 pm
I came across your site by way of the picture of the red Baker. Do you still have it? What can you tell me about Bakers?
Thanks Pete, that was awesome. I am surprised I can hear the difference, and at times, I’m surprised that the difference is very subtle.
Ahh, glorious confirmation that swamp ash sounds better than alder! 🙂
Thanks for the comparison clips, very thorough. The ‘clean’ tones were edgier than I consider for clean but they work. When I think of clean Strat tones, I think of Sultans of Swing, etc, you know, chimey bell-tones. Surprised at how much more I prefer the Alder – the Ash body seems harsh in comparison. And the Maple neck sounds fatter and warmer than the Roswood fingerboard neck, was expecting the opposite.
The dirty clips were too overdriven for my personal tastes, I had no preferences for one wood or another.
Alder and rosewood works for me!
Great experiment, thanks.
Great way to compare, thanks for the clips. The swampash/maple/maple clips remind me of what I like about my swampash Tele with all maple neck. It’s great for funk.
I can hear a slight difference, but its so small theres no reason think one is better than the other.
A little EQ tweaking could make them all sound identical
@Matt Parsons
The audio quality of the swamp clips is better, but the Alder timbre sound is “better”.
I heard Alder timbre sound more masculine. The swamp one a little cleaner, but the timbre is more effeminate.
So i prefer the Alder sound.
@Robi
The Swamp clips have more gain.
@Robi
Everything was done with identical settings. What you’re hearing is the impact that the wood has on the tone.
@Gary
While sound is part of the equation, EQ’ing won’t change the responsiveness of the different woods in your hands when playing in different settings. Amp volume (whether clean or overdriven) is like using a microscope for sound….it will further bring out the inherent foundational qualities of these wood combinations.
Wonderfull work!, definitely I prefer Alder + maple/maple, bright clear, no harsh, chimey/twangy. All the 50´s, 60´s flavors! :-).
thanks mate that has helped me confirm that ash and maple is for me.rock on..Jazz on country on ………..Funk on
Pete,
Can you tell us the neck shapes on your Suhr strats? I’m trying to decide between the even C slim or the 60’s C shape Suhr neck for a Suhr custom build. Also, have you found the Single coil silencing technology installed in your suhrs to affect tone at all? By the way, thanks for taking the time to do these recordings. This is just what I was searching for on the net!
Sure. The one piece maple neck was the 60’s C medium while the maple with Brazilian rosewood fingerboard was the Even C medium shape. Both necks featured a 10-14″ radius. The shape is really a matter of preference in what feels comfortable in your hand. I find the radius to have more of an effect on your playing than the neck shape. For me, anything rounder that 10-14 is too “vintage” for my playing style.
As for the Silent Single Coil system, I think it is a wonderful innovation. The ability to play single coil pickups with all their delicate, glassy, punchy and gnarly glory without hum through high gain is amazing. I do think that the in-between positions feel and sound a little different because of the polarity being the same (vs RWRP on typical strats), but its not enough to make be want to switch back. That said, if you think they sound fine in my clips here then you should be more than happy with them.
Thanks for digging the clips. Please spread the word!
Haha…whatever it is, they all sound like great strats…:):)
Thanks Pete for doing such a systematic comparison. I was surprised to hear so much difference. For me the big, round tone of the alder body/maple neck combo was streets ahead. This was a surprise since conventional wisdom says that maple is brighter than rosewood. If my physics lessons serve me correctly, the density of the woods will be more important than the actual species of the woods in determining tone.
Awesome work Pete, thanks a lot for spending so much of your time and for working so thoroughly! I am currently thinking about getting a swamp ash with rosewood and in the clips it has been my fovourite comination. Did you mention yours or did you leave that out on purpose?
ATB
Martin
Thanks Martin. I left my preference out on purpose as I wanted everyone else to make their own decisions. I will certainly say that through this process I’ve learned what combinations I prefer for various genres of music or particular musical settings, but that’s just my opinion.
thanks for that, that changed my mind in general. only thought which neck would sound different. the swamp ash has a perfect punch, the alder is quite soft in comparison.
@Gary
don`t think so, swanp ash has more “body” in my ear. had the problem when i tried to make my emg sa sound like proper strat-coils. they missed the punch in any way. days of trying – no chance!
i tried to identify the samples blindly. body is obvious the first time you hear it. the neck is not that big difference and i absolutly agree with tom: the maple neck sounds fatter!
Nice comparison. Thanx. Slight differencies in neck construction also changes the tone. The shape of the neck profile, thickness and so on.
Great review! I t would have been interesting to list these without telling what the woods were and then get the comments, since many of us think we know what this wood or that wood will sound like. If only they would sell Brent Mason and or Eddie Van Halens fingers :p
alder/maple sound good together, ash/rosewood also sound good..both have a good balance. alder/rosewood sound thuddy/lifeless, and ash/maple are to bright. Just my .02 cents worth,i personally would choose ash/rosewood..real bluesy tone
I’ve been listening to all the samples over and over again… In different days and different moods but in the same room and via the same sound system. My conclusion is the swamp-ash + rosewood f’board sounds better, IMO. As StratCat well stated, the ash body + rosewood is sort of a perfect balance, as the rosewood “smoothes” the natural “brightness” of the ash body.
My main guitar is a 1 piece, ash-bodied, 1959 Stratocaster with a rosewood board. Some people say it’s a quite rare guitar as Fender changed to alder sometime between 1956/1957. Also, the pickups in this one have a bit more output than later Strat pickups wounded in the then-modern, automatic winders.
However, Pete’s audio samples sound quite close to my old Strat. And to be completely honest (and a bit biased, I admit), I just love the sound of my Strat, hence, my preference for the ash + rosewood combo.
Ahh! They all sound so different and so similar at the same time… To me the fretboard woods have remarkable differences in the sound, prove that the a small piece of wood like the fretboard will make a big difference in the sound. I love both Alder and Swamp Ash ans I own guitars on both woods. It’s a matter of taste and prefereces, that’s all it is!
BTW, how much do you get the classics nowadays? Is it still in the $3000 range? A friend of mine told me he got his for $2000, but he had to wait for 10 months
I like the swamp ash for the neck and bridge pickups, but the alder for the rest. Too bad nobody makes a switch to toggle between woods!
I could also hear added complexity in the rosewood fretboard, but i much preferred the tonal purity of the one-piece maple neck. To me, that added complexity just muddied things up.
Alder and Maple is the winner for me. Not that the others sounded bad by any stretch.
I only need to hear it from one clean position say, MIDDLE maybe. I want hear more woods!
I ALSO WANT TO HEAR THE DIFFERENCE IN TONE BETWEEN BRIDGES. SAY, A VINTAGE TREMOLO AND A HARD TAIL BRIDGE.
@Justin Case of course you like that one best. you’ve already paid top dollar for it!
To my ears… The all maple neck has fewer harmonics(more fundamental) than a maple neck/rosewood board (thicker, harmonically richer tone)… The ash body has fewer lows/mids than alder…
A guitars neck oscillates out of phase with the strings vibration causing phase cancellation at certain frequencies.. A stiffer neck will have more highs because it oscillates less causing less phase cancellation, hence more treble…
Thanks for all the effort you made toward putting to rest this long running debate. I agree with the quote above… was expecting the maple neck to be brighter than the rosewood. The differences are subtle but the alder/maple combination sounds a bit warmer to me. In the end, the difference is in the ear of the beholder so to speak.
Thanks, Im looking this article over the past 2years and gladly found it here..the audio sample also helps a lot 😀
i can clearly hear the difference
greetings from Indonesia 🙂
You can get the Pro series for less that 2k but then you have no control over the specs. If you are very specific about what you want for a classic (and I would HIGHLY suggested getting the SSC system), you’re still looking at the 2-3k range.
To my ears maple isn’t brighter, it just cuts better in the mix, especially when paired with alder. Not much low end in that scenario, but when you’re playing with a band that shouldn’t matter.
Glad you enjoyed this and found it useful. The purpose of my posts is to keep people from wasting money on things that I wish I knew about when I was younger! Please learn from my mistakes! 😉
This is an awesome and well executed fair comparison. Seems like Suhr stirred up a massive buzz over the past few years with the “Swamp ash rosewood” stuff on their website, and this comparison is perfect for nipping that in the butt. Theres a difference, but not in a bad way… definitely not enough to tell people its not the ash-rose combo is not recommended. Thanks for doing this regardless the outcome, people can decide with their own ears with this balanced comparison.
Thanks for you great work. i have been searching for a great tone with different woods and I found out that the weight of the body has more to do with the tone and response than the wood itself.
For the tone and attack of the E string I would dare to say that your alder body is a little more weighty than the swamp ash, but in any case the guitars weight more than 7,5lbs. am I wrong?
great article and research! I’ve just stuck an SRV signature neck(Pau Ferro) on a swamp ash body thats light, around 3,13..so was looking around for any opinions..Most of the strats I have actually have alder bodies, but one of the strats has an interesting body, its a scheckter vintage custom shop body made from Iroko wood..definitely has a different sound to alder anyway…I stuck a fender gold series bridge and used a brass claw and noiseless springs in the back and it runs a brazilian rosewood scheckter neck with reverse head..would be interesting to put against the alder and ash…
Anyway, great work!
Hi Pete,
To me it wasn’t a big surprise when Brazilian Rosewood was brighter than Maple. Maple is known to be brighter than regular, or Indian Rosewood but Brazilian Rosewood is very dense and bright. That being said, I think there’s the factor that a neck with a glued fingerboard would be less ‘fat’ than a one-piece neck.
I think you’re absolutely right about different genres needs different wood choices. To my ears Ash has a mid-scooped sound which, when used with med-high gain gets too boomey at lows and shrill at highs. Again, not a problem when playing alone or if you’re in a modern metal band. But in a bad where the bass player conquers all the lows and has super sharp slapping techniques a overly mid-scooped guitar tone would be lost.
personally I like it warm with a lot of gain, so I’d go for Alder and all Maple in this case.
Thanks again for this fantastic comparison.
Cheers
I did a quick listen through the speakers on this laptop- will put some headphones on later- but initially I like the alder body. I’m more about ‘clean’- at the source. I sensed a bit more “distortion” in the swamp ash recording. Not to say it’s ‘bad’ at all- and ‘distortion’ may not be the correct way to describe what I’m hearing. I came here because I just bought a G&L S-500 with an alder body and saw there was another model with an ash body. The swamp ash body G&L was less expensive than the alder… Anyway, thanks for doing this!
Thanks a lot for all of this.
Man, thanks for the sound experiement to determine what’s a better wood. I aonly listened to the selections woth maple/rosewood necks ’cause that’s what I prefer.
It’s all individual, of course. Alder sounded a bit boomier with a bit more focused attack. Swamp ash sounded a bit edgier, quackier, more telecaster-like, with more emphasis on hi-mids than alder.
I go with alder because of perceived overall better string definition and fuller low end.
great article — even if we can get a little too annal about all this, but I realized I really like the swamp ash + I would have never said that before.
I can’t decide between alder/maple and ash/rosewood so just give me one of both please.
what genre u playing?
I just got an ash strat and hate it!
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Ah! What a superb piece of work! I play mostly classical music (Bach, Vivaldi, Villa-Lobos, Faure etc etc)> I have found that for me an alder body with a pure maple neck and fretboard give me the more clear tones. You appear to have confirmed this so it is not just my ears.
Bravo ! that’s quite a job…impressed I am…
what a great comparison! Thanks for all your work. As always,it boils down to personal preference. I like the warm full sound of alder and rosewood.
This is the best demo I’ve ever heard, seriously. Thanks for your time in doing this and posting it. I like the ash/maple combo the best overall, but the alder/Brazilian sounds great too. Ash/Braz seems to have too many overtones or something – sounds good clean, but is too much, IMO, overdriven. The alder/maple combo just sounds too fundamental and middy for my tastes. Thanks again for this!
Nicely done. Context: Ash vs Alder with Rosewood neck. I didn’t listen to maple necks. To me the ash typically emphasizes highs and lows – meaning I hear more in the very low and very high frequencies. It seems the Ash body is like a natural way to turn up the presence control (the frequencies above the treble control on a tube amp). I like this in all the pickups except the bridge where its just too darn piercing. The Fender American Deluxe Strat has a pickup configuration that controls for that a bit – but also reduces the usefulness of two of the ten bridge and neck pickup combinations. It is interesting the Eric Johnson, Jeff Beck etc. choose Alder with their Rosewood artist strats.
God Bless Pete for attempting this experiment.
Important for folks to note that you can hear subtle differences.
However, the guitars were not strummed and fretted by a machine, nor do they share the same exact, swapped-out pickups, or circuit for each, and every recording sample. Bummer.
Thus, we MUST ask ourselves: Are the infinitesimally subtle variations we hear contributed to solely by the wood constituents of each guitar? Or, might the pressure differences in strumming, and in fretting between recordings add the tonal variations? Perhaps the varying pickup outputs may be a factor? Could the fairly large (up to 15%)manufacturing tolerances allowed between two “identical” potentiometers, produced consecutively on the assembly line, be adding/subtracting some high-end, or low-end, thus accounting for a bit extra “bite”, or some more/less “woof”? Hmm.
That is how an experiment must be performed if we are to determine it’s results scientific, therefore “most probably factual”. It is a ton of work to perform such a test. To take the entire circuit, and pickups out of one guitar, and move them to another prior to each recording. However it is THE ONLY way to truly determine that the build materials are the cause of the variations.
Most major manufacturers HAVE performed these tests, under stringent scientific guidelines. I know this from my friend “Mr. X” whom worked at one of “The Big 3” for many decades designing guitars, and pickups. Sadly, they do not publicize their results. The hard truth is that their results do not support the case for the existence of “electric tonewood”. This is why these tests are not public. They are only mentioned in Internal Memos.
However, many dollars have already been sunk into the marketing machine attempting to convince players that Swamp Ash (for which Fender got a nice buy-in this month from a Brazilian seller)is “more resonant” than Pine. The only way a company can move all those maple-neck guitars they are overstocked with, is if they market them to country players who need “high-end clarity” for extended chording. Otherwise, the only difference between Maple and Rosewood, is the color. A much harder market segment to determine.
Lastly, some folks are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED, BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that electric “tonewoods” are a factor in their audio composite.
For those hardcore guys, and gals, one must invoke “The Placebo Factor”. The human brain is such an inherently powerful instrument, that the mere “power of suggestion” via a sugar-pill literally cures 25-30% of the control group IN EVERY pharmacological study. It is common knowledge, and an easily researchable factoid.
It is not limited to drugs, however. The power of suggestion can work for almost any decision a human can make. Including what we hear. So ask yourself if you really hear a difference one way, or another. Or, might you just THINK you hear it, because you were told you would?
Food for thought. Thanks again Pete, for trying to get to the bottom of such a huge pile of crapola.
@Sehriyar
Which Maple are you referring to? Quilted, Bird’s Eye, or Flame? They are all different. Quilted is very soft, while Bird’s Eye is quite hard. Flame could go either way. How can they all be lumped together if they are so very different? What gives them predictable acoustic signatures if not the density, and grain?
There is no singular MAPLE. So how is it you hear “Maple” as just being unquestionably “brighter”? Very confusing. Maybe you could talk to a luthier, and get some clarity? Doc
Thanks for the test. It has always been my obsession to figure out all the possible subtileties in sound by varying the parts of an instrument! Your test has been very useful and surprising.
I found that on the clean tones that the alder/maple combination brings out a dryer and more compact sound together with warmer bass and rounder trebles. Rosewood sounded good, but less bassy and a little sloppier, and to my surprise the ash body was too ringing, with a little too long sustain on the disturbing parts of the sound.
So, in my personal opinion it would be better to play the alder body with the maple neck as it is easier to control the sound, as it sustains just the right amount making the player relax about the left hand. Also because of the warmth it is easier to pick the right tone with the right hand.
Flawed test. Pickups are not identical on both guitars. if you switched the entire wiring harness/pickguard from one body to the other that would be better. But still, rewiring, soldering, etc could create a loss of high end… The tonal differences are consistent FOR EACH BODY/SET OF PUPS, so all that was proven was the pickups sound different on each guitar. That’s all.
Thanks Pete for going to all the trouble.
I think the sound samples are all very consistent and really let you hear the differences wood can make.
For me it’s Alder/Rosewood hands down every time.
Cheers,
Eric
Woods do make a difference. Not only in the frequencies emphasized, but also in the envelope. For example, how fast the notes pop off the fretboard, how does the guitar react when you dig in, character of the overtones, things like that. I’ve always noticed that the ebony fingerboard on the LP Customs produces a different envelope than the rosewood on the LP standard. Play each through a clean amp. The difference is there. You’ll also notice a difference between Brazilian Rosewood and Indian rosewood when lots of gain is used. Brazilian is tighter. Pauferro responds more like Brazilian than Indian. Ever wonder why Fender chose pauferro over rosewood for the SRV Strat. Canary has really strong piano bass. Then of course there are differences in individual samples.
Big necks also flatter the tone. Notes seem to have more ‘girth’ when the neck is nice and fat. That’s also an envelope effect. Skinny necks tend to sound weaker when playing clean. I think it has to do with how the vibrations are transferred.
So the question is whether you hear it and whether you can you feel it when you play. These differences are most evident when you play in a toneful manner. Crank up megagain on a Line 6 and employ a hamfisted technique, you’re not gonna notice a difference. As for the woods used in the test, swamp ash and rosewood = scooped mids. Maple and alder have fatter / more natural mids. These differences tend toward differences in certain tube types, 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, etc. Of course it’s also totally possible that I’ve been imagining all these things 🙂
wow. this is great! and i don’t say that much.
what this tells me is wood is a minor contributor. i mean, i can get bigger variations by using different picks, playing in a different place on the string, changing pickup height, changing pickups, etc
i was going to do my own experiment to see how wood resonance contributes to tone. maybe i won’t now.
i know this isn’t a “perfect” experiment. variation in playing is probably the biggest variant but it’s close enough for me to make a decision.
The problem with this here is that you can see which sound sample is which guitar.
So because of personal preferences the people will definetely hear what they want to hear. See such comments like “I didn’t listen to maple necks.” Lol-Why? Does rosewood sound better? Definetely not.
So what I did for a plain objective result is this:
I downloaded your sound samples and wrote a software that does basically randomize this sound samples (divided in the 10 categories (clean/dirty)).
I ran this program like 20 times on different days and noted the results.
This may be one of the most interesting tests because it is perfectly objective.
The final result shows exactly what I thought it might. Although I always had I sample I liked the most, eventually this was every time a different sample.
So the final result was that all 4 combinations got nearly exact the same points (maple slightly more than the rosewood ones).
Why is that? Electric guitar sound (on the contrary to acoustic guitar sound) is affected by the guitar’s wood very little to almost zero. You will find guitars that have extremely small bodies and no headstock but they blow you away with their bass etc. So forget about buying the “right wood” for you guitar. It doesn’t make any difference.
My suggested combination: Alder/Maple.
Why? Alder ist usually lighter that Ash (more comfortable to wear).
And maple is a bit more resistant to dirt and damages than rosewood.
If you want to test this yourself using my software I can give it to you.
Thank for the test!
Confirms what I have been hearing. Swamp Ash sucks…. at least for me… for a strat. You lose all of the definition that makes a strat sound like a strat.
I can get any number of guitars to sound like the swamp ash + rosewood combo…. but the alder / maple combo is one of a kind.
@Russ The Eric Johnson Strat is Alder Body with Maple neck.
Excellent comparison! Looks to me like the main sound comes from the body. Ash appears to be too bright for me and, I think, this the reason why 9 out of 10 would rather pick up an alder body (when looking for a good Strat; vice versa for Teles), as it is very difficult to curb the high end coming from the construction of an electric guitar itself; you can replace the pickups and play long games with a variety of amps and strings, but you will never ever put higher tones down (if this is a problem). Ash/maple combination is definitely pure vintage sound, whereas Alder/Maple and Alder/Rosewood is a modern Strat (think Hendrix, Clapton, Knopfler). Lack of sound reproducibility in case of Ash was not the only reason for which Fender decided to switch into Alder body; it gives you way warmer sound (loads of midrange absent in case of Ash).
Fantastic presentation, life saving research – thank you !!!
You know I keep hearing guys talking about wood doesn’t make a difference. And how it’s such a placebo effect but Kudos to what this brother did in his exercise of tone evaluation! I kept hearing the same differences as the wood combos would change. So, if it was a placebo, I would just hear whatever I wanted to hear. But I was surprised to find that my ears heard the first combination “Adler and maple neck” as the Best sounding ! for the style in which the player was playing. Which surprised me because I am a rosewood kind of guy. But to the so-called “placebo” position: In that only the Pickups and amp make a difference to the sound, and the Wood and be player don’t come into play in the soup of sound . I submit this….. My wife and I are singers and players but when we sing on the mic we sound Completely different… On the same mic… so goes wood on the same mic. 🙂
Sorry I ment to spell Alder not Adler 🙂
Thanks for the test. It surprised me, but not in the way most would think. It did NOT reinforce my preconceived notion.
I think what we often hear is very much what we are already invested in, financially or emotionally. I am a 35 year sound production engineer and composer for television, known for his ears, and for me the differences are for the most part astoundingly subtle. I can tell you honestly that if I artfully edited most of these together, perhaps with the tiniest touch of EQ, no one . . . NO ONE would be able to reliably hear the edit points. A million times I have seamlessly edited far less well matched audio.
What does that say? The differences are miniscule. Far more subtle than I ever expected (btw, I have both ash and alder Fenders). Dynamics are amazingly similar. EQ differences VERY minor. A little EQ tweak would do it. And a compressor, even lightly applied, would wipe out the dynamics differences. We’re mostly hearing what we expect to hear . . . or want to hear. We want to be validated. It’s a human thing.
The truth is that guitars themselves are very individual. We’ve all played 5 different stats and found ONE we liked. I have heard 2 of the exact same model alder/maple strats sound far more different than most of these.
My two cents . . . .
I think you can hear the difference in the lower strings more . The rosewood is slightly bassier and fuller .
Whatever tests those ‘Big 3’ did, THEY don’t count as scientific unless they are made public in all details. We at least can criticize the results here, we are given no such chance with those. We can’t take ‘somebody’s word’ for it sorry.
Pete,
I cannot possibly thank you enough for this thorough analysis & audio clips. I have been struggling with selecting the right body tone woods & neck woods to get the the tones that I want in an S-style guitar. These postings are an enormous help, so I greatly appreciate it. For whatever it’s worth, I am going with an Alder body & one piece maple neck. Just wish I had discovered your fine work before buying several S-types only to be disappointed by missing the mark on finding the right combination of tone woods for my taste.
Dear Peter,
thank you for all the great work!
Would it be possible to have an e-mail exchange about a psychoacoustic experiment on the differences neck and body material make on the perception of guitar sound? If you agree, please use my e-mail address – you have it now!
Thanks in advance for your consideration,
Tilmann
Thank you for this fine work. I have not come across any comparison like this before, and I am very impressed. While the differences were subtle, my favorite was the Alder-One Piece Maple Neck because of its definition in the high end. Interesting, because I play a Swamp Ash – Maple Neck guitar currently, which I like. But in your test, the first combo sounded a bit better to me.
Great comparison, I’ve been looking for something like this for quite a while, I wish it had been done earlier, this was very thorough and revealing. Great choice using a Suhr strat, Right now i have a Brazilian rosewood neck blank that is long enough to make a neck thru strat neck, without a fretboard blank yet, or used to make an acoustic with 14 fret neck and fretboard as an option. I also have a macassar ebony neck blank and an macassar ebony fretboard blank that could be made into a ebony neck thru strat with ebony fretboard. They’re both more than 40 inches long. I am debating getting an alder, swamp ash, and african mahogany 1 piece body blanks for these possible guitars. Fortunately i have a luthier available that can make guitars on par with a Suhr strat as far as tone quality is concerned. I wanted a clear, bright, ringing and resonate tone for a strat to make chimey electric intros to hard rock songs, among other lesser needs. More traditional strat rock tones would be an added bonus if the guitar could do those as well. I also like david gilmour’s 70’s and 80’s strat tones. After hearing this excellent comparison, it seems alder body, maple or ebony neck and maple/brazilian rosewood/ebony fretboard seems to be what it’s narrowed down to for a bright, shimmery, long sustaining bridge pickup clean guitar for arpeggiated and single note leads and melodies for me. It would be great to see some comparisons with ebony, african rosewood(korina or limba) and hard( not swamp ash) ash for bodies, necks and fretboards done by this same author. This comparison here really brought to light the differences between ash and alder bodies to me, and maple and brazilian rosewood fretboards. Alder bodies seemed more focused and midrangey, and swamp ash seemed richer, more resonant, but duller and weaker in tone. Maple fretboards seemed brighter and more forward, brazilian rosewood fretboards seemed more woody and richer and harmonically complex and broader, but less forward. That’s how it seemed to me, just my input here. Does anyone have knowledge of ebony vs. brazilian rosewood necks( and possibly fretboards also)and which has a brighter or richer deeper tone?
That is really helpful!!! and a proof to some folks on the web claiming that wood doesn’t affect the sound of an electric guitar… Well done, and thank you for taking the time to put all this together for you and the rest of us !!!
Hi Pete,
I’m trying to make this exact tone wood decision before ordering a USACG neck and body. I have Flash installed and javasript enabled, but still not able to get to your sound clips. Are they still available? Is there any other method to get access to them?
Thanks a bunch………….
Hi Ross – thanks for reminding me that I need to replace the flash plugin with a more modern HTML5 audio player. I will get that updated in the next few days and reply here once its up and running again. Sorry about that.!
I came across your site by way of the picture of the red Baker. Do you still have it? What can you tell me about Bakers?